So many people on this thread are defending leashes, yet they don’t exist anywhere but in the US, so…
I have never ever seen a kid leash in Denmark or any country I have visited, and yet kids here don’t run around in stores acting out or disappearing.
I don’t know, they seem dehumanizing and humiliating to me. If other countries can raise kids (incl kids on the spectrum) without them why can’t the US?
I’m not even from US (Asian) and i see them in my country from time to time, especially in mall. Why would you find it dehumanising when it’s merely something that tied to each other wrist? It’s not even tied to a neck or something, it’s just handholding with extra length. It sounds crazy to me that people actually dehumanising it then call it dehumanising.
I am not referring to a string you hold, I am referring to a leash like this:
I find them dehumanizing and humiliating because they remind me of a dog leash. Look, people parent differently across the world, I remember a British-Indian comedian who was married to a Dane who said that every parenting practice she regarded as healthy and appropriate was basically illegal in Denmark.
The leash will never not be weird to me, but it is what it is. I don’t think everyone who uses a leash is literally going to treat their kid like a dog, I know they probably love and cherish their kids like I cherish mine, but the fact remains that it feels off to me and I’d say most other people from my neck of the woods.
My guess is that the American working system has drained so much from their working population that leashes are required because they have no energy left to pay full attention to their children.
That, and streets are deadly hellscapes over there a lot of the time. Driving laws are barely enforced and infrastructure is almost like it’s intended to kill anyone who dares to exist outside a car.
Out of 75 million kids 200 per year are killed by vehicles. This is roughly on par, albeit slightly higher than top EU countries.
People rightfully look at you like you’re stupid when you make these statements that have nothing to do with reality. Get off the internet.
Child Pedestrian Fatalities per Million Children (under 15)
Country / Region Est. Fatalities/Year Child Pop. (0–14) Fatalities per Million
United States ~225 ~61 million ~3.7
United Kingdom ~22 ~11.5 million ~1.9
Canada ~12 ~6 million ~2.0
Australia ~11 ~4.8 million ~2.3
Germany ~20 ~11 million ~1.8
France ~18 ~11 million ~1.6
Japan ~18 ~15 million ~1.2
India ~3,000 (est.) ~360 million ~8.3
Brazil ~450 ~50 million ~9.0
European Union (EU-27) ~140–160 ~72 million ~2.0
My grandma was a disabled stay-at-home mom with a hyperactive daughter who tended to run away and wreak havoc, and all the police would soon know who to return her to. Grandma was scolded by neighbors for using a leash but able to explain herself. This was in 1970s Czechoslovakia.
It’s fuckin wild. I used to manage a toys department in an American burger big box store in a small town so I saw some shit. It’s either parents with kids on leashes or threatening them or hitting them in the aisle, my fellow Americans often treat their kids like shit, the image of the overindulgent parent isn’t really what you see around. Kids get treated like this and grow up to be adults who don’t break the cycle.
I can’t ever remember seeing a kid wearing them here in the UK but my grandma once said she used “reins” on my dad and his siblings which would have been from late 1960s to late 1970s.
Me and my sister definitely had them in the early 80s. Kids are stupid, and the alternative is you strap them in a buggy if they can’t be trusted to walk.
I’ve seen it once in Denmark actually. But it was a severely mentally challenged kid on a train station where the parents had them in a leash. Looked weird when you’re not used to it, but I guess I can understand that one use case.
They weren’t uncommon in the US in the '90s, they fell out of favor soon after. Even back then they weren’t popular.
In the '80s and earlier, corporal punishment was regular and expected. There was a push in the '90s to stop the corporal punishment. A lot of parents stopped handing out corporal punishment but failed to replace it with any form of discipline. It was not an uncommon to see kids tearing things off shelves yelling at and smacking their parents while their parents were going “now Jimmy, We don’t do that” shrinking at parents walking by saying their kids, what are you going to do?;The little backpacks with the leashes were a symptom of failed parenting. If you grew up in this time in a very conservative area you might not have experienced this yourself, as giving timeouts, redirecting, and not beating your kids as a relatively progressive ideal and when it started it was actively disparaged by conservatives.
In the '80s and earlier, corporal punishment was regular and expected. There was a push in the '90s to stop the corporal punishment.
Corporeal punishment was outlawed in Denmark by 1997, but was definitely frowned upon much earlier than that. My grandparent’s generation - born in the 1920s and 1930s - was likely the last generation where it was commonly used.
I mean, our kids can be little brats as well - and our kids are also prone to run off and do dumb stuff, but apparently we handle it differently. And I am fairly certain that my initial reaction - that it’s dehumanizing and humiliating - is how it comes off to almost all Nordic parents.
No, I’m explaining the timing. We went from it being acceptable to not doing it in a very short period of time. Delicious came out because parents couldn’t work out any way to control their kids but a physical means.
I’m well aware that Nordic countries treat their kids with a lot more dignity and freedom than the rest of the world, some might even say to their own detriment.
One of my co-workers expatriated to Sweden for a few years. There were tweens just hopping on the bus and going to the museum miles away. But I get the feeling that one could trust the average Swede would prevent harm to a child from a pedophile.
Leashes in the US were a symptom of a brisk change in society with relatively little information on how to perform it. They definitely existed.
One of my co-workers expatriated to Sweden for a few years. There were tweens just hopping on the bus and going to the museum miles away. But I get the feeling that one could trust the average Swede would prevent harm to a child from a pedophile.
In contrast to what many people think, Nordic people are fairly strict with what kids are allowed to do when they are small. We spend a lot of time and effort to ensure that kids are well behaved and can be trusted and don’t act out when they are small, and then, gradually, they are allowed more freedom as they grow older. By the time they’re young teenagers we generally feel like they’ve demonstrated that they can be trusted and they are often allowed to bike or take the bus around town and live with a lot more freedom.
Maybe you’re thinking “Duh, that’s how everyone does it!”, but the reason I mention it is that I’ve experienced that many cultures do it differenty; when the kids are young they are allowed a lot of freedom and very little responsibility, then as they grow older their parents will restrict them more and more. It’s pretty much the opposite of the Nordic approach.
We’re veering off course (or I am, at least), but I find the differences in parenting across cultures very fascinating.
One commenter said that the leashes are for safe toddler independence, not control, and I guess I can see that. It makes sense, even if it would be cultural taboo in my part of the world.
I’m 53 and have seen them used on different continents. My mom used one on me in Europe when we visited when I was two years old. You are completely wrong on all fronts with your comment. Have a good day.
Lemmy, like reddit, skews American and you’re referring to Europe as well, Europe, which tells me you’re not European. You’re welcome to correct me, of course.
Even if you’ve seen leashes on all continents, they’re definitely super rare and not common now. If you decide to be informative instead of assertive you are welcome to educate me on your experiences and expand on which fronts exactly I am wrong and why.
So many people on this thread are defending leashes, yet they don’t exist anywhere but in the US, so…
I have never ever seen a kid leash in Denmark or any country I have visited, and yet kids here don’t run around in stores acting out or disappearing.
I don’t know, they seem dehumanizing and humiliating to me. If other countries can raise kids (incl kids on the spectrum) without them why can’t the US?
They used to be quite common in the UK back in the 80s. Stops kids running into busy roads, and you can also use it to hold up an unsteady toddler.
Obviously you don’t use them on like eight year olds.
You don’t see them much any more.
I’m not even from US (Asian) and i see them in my country from time to time, especially in mall. Why would you find it dehumanising when it’s merely something that tied to each other wrist? It’s not even tied to a neck or something, it’s just handholding with extra length. It sounds crazy to me that people actually dehumanising it then call it dehumanising.
I am not referring to a string you hold, I am referring to a leash like this:
I find them dehumanizing and humiliating because they remind me of a dog leash. Look, people parent differently across the world, I remember a British-Indian comedian who was married to a Dane who said that every parenting practice she regarded as healthy and appropriate was basically illegal in Denmark.
The leash will never not be weird to me, but it is what it is. I don’t think everyone who uses a leash is literally going to treat their kid like a dog, I know they probably love and cherish their kids like I cherish mine, but the fact remains that it feels off to me and I’d say most other people from my neck of the woods.
My guess is that the American working system has drained so much from their working population that leashes are required because they have no energy left to pay full attention to their children.
That, and streets are deadly hellscapes over there a lot of the time. Driving laws are barely enforced and infrastructure is almost like it’s intended to kill anyone who dares to exist outside a car.
The most common way children under 4 are hit by cars is not on the street but in driveways followed by parking lots.
Out of 75 million kids 200 per year are killed by vehicles. This is roughly on par, albeit slightly higher than top EU countries.
People rightfully look at you like you’re stupid when you make these statements that have nothing to do with reality. Get off the internet.
Child Pedestrian Fatalities per Million Children (under 15)
Country / Region Est. Fatalities/Year Child Pop. (0–14) Fatalities per Million
United States ~225 ~61 million ~3.7 United Kingdom ~22 ~11.5 million ~1.9 Canada ~12 ~6 million ~2.0 Australia ~11 ~4.8 million ~2.3 Germany ~20 ~11 million ~1.8 France ~18 ~11 million ~1.6 Japan ~18 ~15 million ~1.2 India ~3,000 (est.) ~360 million ~8.3 Brazil ~450 ~50 million ~9.0 European Union (EU-27) ~140–160 ~72 million ~2.0
Total EU child population (0–14): ~72 million
Result: ~2.1 deaths per million children
I’m not saying more kids die in traffic over there. I’m saying people have to be, and are, way more careful to keep their kids away from traffic.
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My grandma was a disabled stay-at-home mom with a hyperactive daughter who tended to run away and wreak havoc, and all the police would soon know who to return her to. Grandma was scolded by neighbors for using a leash but able to explain herself. This was in 1970s Czechoslovakia.
Yea, I don’t get it. Reading this thread, the people seem insane to me. Yet they are all 100% up arrows.
It’s fuckin wild. I used to manage a toys department in an American burger big box store in a small town so I saw some shit. It’s either parents with kids on leashes or threatening them or hitting them in the aisle, my fellow Americans often treat their kids like shit, the image of the overindulgent parent isn’t really what you see around. Kids get treated like this and grow up to be adults who don’t break the cycle.
I can’t ever remember seeing a kid wearing them here in the UK but my grandma once said she used “reins” on my dad and his siblings which would have been from late 1960s to late 1970s.
Toddlers reins are super useful if they don’t want to go in a push chair and won’t hold hands.
They are for toddlers freedom, not control.
Me and my sister definitely had them in the early 80s. Kids are stupid, and the alternative is you strap them in a buggy if they can’t be trusted to walk.
I’ve seen it once in Denmark actually. But it was a severely mentally challenged kid on a train station where the parents had them in a leash. Looked weird when you’re not used to it, but I guess I can understand that one use case.
They weren’t uncommon in the US in the '90s, they fell out of favor soon after. Even back then they weren’t popular.
In the '80s and earlier, corporal punishment was regular and expected. There was a push in the '90s to stop the corporal punishment. A lot of parents stopped handing out corporal punishment but failed to replace it with any form of discipline. It was not an uncommon to see kids tearing things off shelves yelling at and smacking their parents while their parents were going “now Jimmy, We don’t do that” shrinking at parents walking by saying their kids, what are you going to do?;The little backpacks with the leashes were a symptom of failed parenting. If you grew up in this time in a very conservative area you might not have experienced this yourself, as giving timeouts, redirecting, and not beating your kids as a relatively progressive ideal and when it started it was actively disparaged by conservatives.
Corporeal punishment was outlawed in Denmark by 1997, but was definitely frowned upon much earlier than that. My grandparent’s generation - born in the 1920s and 1930s - was likely the last generation where it was commonly used.
I mean, our kids can be little brats as well - and our kids are also prone to run off and do dumb stuff, but apparently we handle it differently. And I am fairly certain that my initial reaction - that it’s dehumanizing and humiliating - is how it comes off to almost all Nordic parents.
No, I’m explaining the timing. We went from it being acceptable to not doing it in a very short period of time. Delicious came out because parents couldn’t work out any way to control their kids but a physical means.
I’m well aware that Nordic countries treat their kids with a lot more dignity and freedom than the rest of the world, some might even say to their own detriment.
One of my co-workers expatriated to Sweden for a few years. There were tweens just hopping on the bus and going to the museum miles away. But I get the feeling that one could trust the average Swede would prevent harm to a child from a pedophile.
Leashes in the US were a symptom of a brisk change in society with relatively little information on how to perform it. They definitely existed.
In contrast to what many people think, Nordic people are fairly strict with what kids are allowed to do when they are small. We spend a lot of time and effort to ensure that kids are well behaved and can be trusted and don’t act out when they are small, and then, gradually, they are allowed more freedom as they grow older. By the time they’re young teenagers we generally feel like they’ve demonstrated that they can be trusted and they are often allowed to bike or take the bus around town and live with a lot more freedom.
Maybe you’re thinking “Duh, that’s how everyone does it!”, but the reason I mention it is that I’ve experienced that many cultures do it differenty; when the kids are young they are allowed a lot of freedom and very little responsibility, then as they grow older their parents will restrict them more and more. It’s pretty much the opposite of the Nordic approach.
We’re veering off course (or I am, at least), but I find the differences in parenting across cultures very fascinating.
One commenter said that the leashes are for safe toddler independence, not control, and I guess I can see that. It makes sense, even if it would be cultural taboo in my part of the world.
I’ve seen one that basically is a top with a string coming from the back. I get it, kids are stupid and distractible
I’m 53 and have seen them used on different continents. My mom used one on me in Europe when we visited when I was two years old. You are completely wrong on all fronts with your comment. Have a good day.
Your American mum bringing a leash over and using it on you somewhere in Europe 51 years ago hardly makes me wrong on all fronts.
Funny you would assume I’m American. You are still wrong on all fronts.
Lemmy, like reddit, skews American and you’re referring to Europe as well, Europe, which tells me you’re not European. You’re welcome to correct me, of course.
Even if you’ve seen leashes on all continents, they’re definitely super rare and not common now. If you decide to be informative instead of assertive you are welcome to educate me on your experiences and expand on which fronts exactly I am wrong and why.
I see no need to waste my time explaining anything to a closed-minded person. Good day.
Thank you for not contributing with anything meaningful to the conversation, I guess!