- cross-posted to:
- ukraine@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- ukraine@sopuli.xyz
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It’s fucked up that these mines won’t become dud after some time. It means that even after the war comes to it’s end, some undiscovered mines would continue to kill and maim civilians. What a stupid, dull weapon, but there are plenty of them to throw around.
Some mines are designed to self-destruct after a defined interval. FM 20-32 (Mine/Countermine Operations) PDF describes some of the US-made systems starting on page 3-6 and notes that 2-5% of mines are expected to remain live after their self-destruct time has passed. Not the best but it’s better than a freshly-laid minefield at least. There are also procedures to follow for marking minefields as well as record-keeping and reporting requirements so they’re easier to locate and clear afterward.
An effort for good ethics that the Russians would never tolerate. I wouldn’t say the US military is particularly ethical, but at least they tolerate and cooperate with some ethical initiatives.
I can understand your viewpoint, there’s no shortage of evidence to support that line of thinking. “Shit happens” doesn’t quite cover it when said shit that happened involves maiming and loss of innocent life. There’s a wide range of personalities and motivations that can compel a person to sign an enlistment contract or make whatever the dark pact is that results in commissioning as an officer. Some parts of the population are over- or under-represented due to the availability of other opportunities so it’s not a perfect representation of the US but you do get to meet a lot of people who would otherwise probably never be within the same state as you.
My experiences mostly put me in contact with people who joined up to do some good in the world but I know that’s not universal and even then, there are times when almost everyone will fall short of the ideal. I believe it’s due to circumstance than any strength of character that the stuff that I got wrong never resulted in death, injuries or significant damage. That being said, the people I’ve known and respected took their moral and ethical responsibilities seriously because they cared about the outcome of their actions and the impact on everyone involved.
Might not be much point to this and I’m just thinking with my keyboard. My best attempt to try and tie this together is that we don’t always get things right, sometimes people set out to do harm to others and get what they’re looking for but it’d be a mistake to look at the US military as a monolith since there are good people doing their best to form it into what they believe it could and should be.
Too bad only civilized countries use these mines
The US also use them.
I think you misunderstood my comment
They were joking that the US is not a civilized country.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In an urgent appeal to allies, Oleksii Reznikov told the Guardian his soldiers were unearthing five mines for every square metre in places, laid by Russian troops to try to thwart Ukraine’s counteroffensive.
The number of sappers in the Ukrainian armed forces was nowhere near enough to get through the complex Russian defences on the vast 600-mile (1,000km) front, with mine clearing units targeted with heavy fire.
Defence ministry officials in Kyiv suggested there was an opportunity for countries such as Japan that do not want to provide lethal aid to offer support in the form of mine clearing equipment and training.
Volodymyr Zelenskiy has complained that having to wait for western delivery of arms and delay the start of this year’s counteroffensive allowed Russia to lay millions of mines ahead of their positions.
At a meeting in July in Ramstein in Germany of the alliance of 54 countries supporting Ukraine, Lithuania, Finland, Iceland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark agreed train and equip Ukrainian mine clearing units.
Pete Smith, the Ukraine programme manager of the mine-clearing NGO Halo, and formerly an officer in command of all of the British army’s explosive ordnance disposal assets, said the level of mine contamination was “unrecognisable in modern history”.
I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Seems a fine thing for some robotics to solve. There are so many we can’t possibly train all the sappers needed. Or risk people for it either.
First iteration literally plants a flag in the ground. Second could surface. Third could defuse.
Given the vast areas now involved, any push is going to be massively hindered by these fields. Combat ready models a requirement too then. Something bigdog like with a metal detector, ground penetrating radar, and/or underground sonar would be my starting point
Very naive question - why is it so hard to find landmines?
Why can’t you see the holes where they placed the mines from a helicopter?
Is there no machine that can “see” underground and help locate them?
Is there no way to just spray a bunch of objects in the field and detonate them?
Why can’t you see the holes where they placed the mines from a helicopter?
Anti tank mines are buried so after some time they are basically invisible. If they are lucky it might be recently placed (dirt is still visibility disturbed) or places poorly and they can find them.
Anti personal mines are straight up too small to see from the air. Google butterfly mines. Almost impossible to see in some of the dense foliage.
Also flying shit in an active combat zone often gets shot down.
Is there no machine that can “see” underground and help locate them?
There is metal detectors which are widely used. But very hard to use in a combat zone. Anything bigger would trip the mine.
Speaking of big things triggering it, it also happens to also be a way they clear it. They attach these big disposable wheels to the front of tanks which activates the mines. They are just extremely slow and once again hard to use in an active combat zone.
Is there no way to just spray a bunch of objects in the field and detonate them?
They do something similar actually, instead it’s a huge rope of explosives that blows open a corridor. It gets shot out of a vehicle using rockets. But the amount of explosive used is not cheap so limited supplies and it’s also a very dangerous target due to the amount of explosives needed. Some of the biggest explosions I have seen online have been from these mine clearing vehicles.
Almost seems like it would be more economic to lay down a piercing line of accurate/heavy shelling from close range artillery that could saturate an area. You see images of normal shelling it it’s already close to full saturation so it seems doable for closer-range / focused fire
Land mines are designed to only be found when they go boom.
There are devices and such like designed to do exactly that- but land mines are fundamentally designed to make that not easy. It takes a lot of people, a lot of effort and a lot of time to clear just a single small stretch of field.
They’re also using African pouch rats in places to smell the - and the little fellas are both cute and heroic!
Fair question, to touch on another yet to be mentioned issue landmines can be cheaply made thus used in massive numbers. If there’s a field with 5 land mines every sq meter and you remove 80% of the mines you’ve spent hundreds of collective man hours to create a field you can’t move an army through.
Also if you did clear a narrow pathway across it you expose your troops to risk crossing if they exit the cleared path and also you leave behind an entire field of landmines, in your home country that will remain lethal for decades to anyone who wandered in it.
I can only answer the first question about visibility since I read a response previously on it. Basically, the overgrowth moves quick so you can’t see anything with plant coverage pretty quickly. Also rain and snow cover tracks and flatten out the soil that would have been disturbed. Comes down to, can’t see any of them unless you are up close and personal…and even then you need to be trained to spot them. As for blowing them up, they’ve been placed everywhere by the Russians. You can’t explode a few thousand square kilometers (I mean short of doing something crazy).
Plus, a lot of the mines are butterfly mines. Nasty little fuckers right here.
Check out this NGO that works on the problem: https://digger.ngo/
