Bolstered by a momentous ICJ ruling, Palestinians, including Americans, gave three hours of testimony against the Biden administration.
Lawyers involved with the lawsuit playing out in federal court said that the ICJ ruling bolsters their case. Their lawsuit argues that Biden, Blinken, and Austin are liable under U.S. law for failing to uphold their obligation to prevent genocide in Gaza.
Barry Trachtenberg, a professor of Jewish history and author of two books about the Holocaust, testified as an expert witness in the case – over repeated objections from Justice Department attorneys. When he filed his declaration in the case in November, he said, some 11,000 Palestinians had been killed. Today, that number is far greater.
“Everything that we feared and more is unfolding,” he said, noting that often, legal actions about genocide happen long after the fact. “What makes this situation so unique is that we’re watching the genocide unfold as we speak. And we’re in this incredibly unique position where we can actually intervene to stop it using the mechanisms of international law that are available to us.”
Every time someone tells you how little power a president has to realize his political objectives I want you to think about how eager, steadfast, and unilateral Biden has been in assisting a foreign country in the waging of a genocidal war. Then imagine he put that kind of political will behind literally anything positive.
It’s weird to me that it’s so unclear what the president actually can and can’t do. Before Trump took his presidential powers for a test drive everyone said it was impossible for a president to do those things. It seems like Biden has found out how to bypass Congress too, but not for the noble purposes we were hoping for.
If Trump’s presidency was good for anything, it was good for giving us innumerable examples of why it’s so dumb to pretend that Democrats were powerless when they had Congress and the presidency for two years.
It should be a lesson: Democrats CHOOSE to not try. “Enlightened Centrism” is a brain disease fundamentally incapable of standing up to fascism.
Well there was lots of times Trump was stopped, too. His Muslim ban was struck down by courts, his wall or trying tk destroy health care would sometimes be slowed in Congress, or his administration would try to slow down his insane impulses. That’s a large part of why they have that new plan to basically replace a ton of the bureaucrats with us men instead of law abiding citizens.
You are going to “love” the alternative you are seething to bring about.
The alternative I’m seething to bring about is not on a ballot.
Exactly. Glad you caught up.
When will you? Stop electing procorporate trash in the primaries. You think we’re bluffing?
When their is a viable alternative option. As I am not a member of any political party, I am not able to Vote in the Primary.
And No, I think you are poorly informed fools.When their is a viable alternative option.
The Boomers and the DNC will make sure there never is one. You want change? They’re your biggest obstacle.
No, I think you are poorly informed fools
Buddy that’s irrelevant. If you need our votes so you’ve gotta listen to our demands. You, the DNC, the Boomers are free to ignore us but then you will lose the general election. Make a choice.
Vote A he will save you from B is not working. Because when A ignore you completely that mean both A and B are bad and voting for A is only going to help A groups not you. A is killing you family and B is killing your family so why you care to vote for A if the end result is the same.
Let A and B decide among themselves what they want, and take your energy and voice to better places instead of aiding one against the other.
False bullshit remains false.
Like, how exactly?
Especially when the topic is Israeli genocide, on which both parties have the exact same position?
That’s not true. One party wants to defend Israel because it is the only hope for lasting human rights and democratic values in the entire region. One party wants Israel to start a hot war with Iran so it has an excuse to nuke the largest Arab state sponsor of Islamicism and Islamic extremism.
Bruh… You still going on about the human rights nonsense? You do realize that Israel is, putting it lightly, an Apartheid state right?
No I don’t realize that at all.
Do you realize Palestinians have had 100 years to reject violent religious extremism, suicide bombings, human shields, and the organized and intentional targeting of civilians, and in that 100 years such ideological violence is more popular than ever?
What you’re saying is untrue.
The parties say two different things. They do exactly the same things with the same results.
And I’m about 30 years past giving parties credit for saying good things and doing bad things.
You’re correct in sentiment, but good luck explaining how the lesser of two evils is still evil whilst claiming the result is the same. You’re conflating a lot of topics by bringing in Israel’s actions. The result is exactly the same because there is a third actor doing it.
Even when it’s strictly things state side, it’s only “exactly the same” if the bar is, “it won’t get completely fixed”, because there is a HUGE difference between Republican plans and Democrat plans. Even if the Dems are still barely offering crumbs, it’s more crumbs than a kick in the teeth.
Ummm…what did I just read? Like a poorly written Metal Gear Solid translation with a mega ineffective solution.
I’m not American, but I’m kind of starting to hope Biden doesn’t win. Just so that these foolish people get what they deserve. The level of stupidity is pouring out right now is just astonishing.
Hey, “stupid” person here. I’m 100% fine with literally whatever you want to call me. But we were very clear during the 2020 primaries we didn’t want Biden and we reluctantly voted for him in the 2020 general to give him a chance. We made it as clear as possible to him and everyone around us that he was on thin ice.
So, sure, call us stupid or whatever. But how stupid do you all have to believe we were bluffing twice?
Yes, Americans have shown themselves to be stupid beyond belief. You’re going to vote for Biden again, your option of shooting yourself in the face isn’t a better option but as I’m not American, I’m starting to hope y’all do exactly that so you get what you deserve.
It’s not just any foreign country. It’s Israel. There’s a shit ton of policy, diplomacy, geographic interests, and money involved. There is literally no president in recent history that would act much differently. The majority of Congress is on board with this.
If the majority of congress is on board, then why repeatedly circumvent them and put himself as the sole person responsible for these wildly unpopular actions during his reelection campaign?
Because he represents the country?
Spending is controlled by Congress. Foreign policy is largely handled by the President, though spending and authorization of the use of force has to be approved by congress.
Also if he’s using it in his campaign why do you think it’s unpopular? Do you believe they don’t do polling?
You may be in one of those internet information silos and not have a good understanding of what’s happening. Hamas committed genocide. People are against genocide. A lot of people are attempting to “both sides” this and claim “uhhh… Israel genocide too” but that’s insane and only makes the Pro-Palestine movement look like lunatics. People cosplay as Hamas members at Palestine marches, literally cosplaying as people that committed genocide. Again, looks like lunatics. Attacks on synagogues, and jewish businesses. The dog whistles “from the river to the sea.” sound an awful lot like blood and soil. Trying to discredit a democracy. Violent movent, misogynistic and homophobic leadership, anti-democracy, genocide… looks an awful lot like a fascist movement.
The best argument in support of Israel is a five minute conversation with a pro-palestine activist. There’s too much hatred in that movement, and given the inability of that movement to separate itself from Hamas, it seems Hamas is the source of all of this hatred on display is the group Israel is currently fighting against. Send them the needed weapons to eliminate the blight on humanity that is Hamas.
Once it’s done the children on the internet claiming to be socialists while supporting a fascist organization lead by billionaires in Qatar and a genocidal maniac in an underground lair in what’s left of Gaza will soon forget and move on to the next thing their hormones have them outraged over. The tankie socialist kids don’t vote anyway, (or if they do it’s for some bullshit third party) so why bother trying to please people whose heads are so full of ideological bullshit and propaganda originating from Iran they are completely incapable of even seeing what they look like to people outside of their information silo?
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Listen to who is not criticising Biden.
This is a both-sides issue.
Edit: The Republican House could bring immediate legitimate and bipartisan articles of impeachment against Biden for 1) sidestepping Congress to arm Israel and 2) abuse of power to foment genocide.
I’m really happy that to some degree the world is now willing to call out Israeli genocide and listen to Palestinians 💖 I hope something good comes out of it and isn’t just squashed by biden and bibi. Inb4 a bunch of shitlibs come in to accuse the people speaking up of being russian plants who want to sabotage biden by asking him to do less genocide (it only took two hours, I wish I was surprised 🤷🏼)
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“some of them celebrated an attack on their occupier’s biggest ally, therefore they all deserve death” that’s some literal fascist shit right there. Fuck 9/11 but you sound exactly like a bush era republican excited to go to EyeRack and kill some r*gheads
Neither nor, just someone who has no empathy for a group that has no empathy for me nor my family who were affected by their selfish actions during both those events.
Yasser Arafat was the last of them whom I had respect for as he was the only one who even attempted to quell all this in the name of peace.
You have no empathy for innocent civilians, over half of which are children, bc of something a small group did. You’re a racist fuck and if you’ve got nothing better to do than spread hate for people half a world away from the same place as some people you don’t like, you should log off
You must not have been a alive or an adult when 9/11 hit, let alone know what those who served in ww2 did for everyone to realize the brevity of how they all reacted during 9/11 or what it means to vandalize ww2 graves and memorials in the name of their cause. Go look up the videos, there’s nothing to hide.
Further, where’s the outcry for those who died in the Syrian Civil War, the attack on Yemen, the war in Ukraine? Quit fucking acting like the Palestinian cause is any goddamned greater than any of those, it’s not. We tried to resolve the Palestinian problem in the 1990s and again in the 2000s, they as a whole refused it.
I was alive for it. And my grandfather’s served in WWII. You’re in the wrong.
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Only thing any of it can accomplish is another R abusing their power to make things worse. That is why you are getting called one of pootie’s shrubs. I’m sure the pride you get from being a useful idiot to pootie and bibi shall power your indignation to continue to blame Biden for having failed to abuse his power.
“we have to do more genocide, anyone who disagrees is a subhuman trump supporter”
You sound unhinged.
I mean they are using the word Pootie cause it’s cute and makes those arguing against them seem like children in their mind while being the one using the childish vocabulary.
So brave and bold to have an argument where you are the victor cause you just don’t listen and assume you are right while arguing like a 10 year old that has a basic understanding of politics.
I’m part of the left but we are collapsing in on ourself trying to be the most asshole to each other and refusing to come together at all in favor of the dopamine of feeling right.
I’m part of the left
I mean, maybe you sympathize with leftist ideals but if you’re unwilling to hold anyone accountable that means your votes and actions are indistinguishable from a typical “oh leftists are just too radical with their communist ideas” moderate. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to Scotsman Fallacy you here but I’m honestly wondering what makes you consider yourself “left” when you’re arguing it’s morally wrong to fight for it.
LOL dude I have paid my fees on criticizing Biden. And will probably keep beating my face against that wall to see if it does anything other than give me a headache…
But I’m also just gonna point out the truth as I see it. Treating people like children and using slang terms for political leaders is not particularly showing for treating the discussion seriously.
Fighting for it isn’t the problem. Having a hissy fit slap fest for the dopamine it gives is just people playing with themselves in public mentally.
Treating people like children and using slang terms for political leaders is not particularly showing for treating the discussion seriously.
It’s all just sentiment bud. Don’t get so bogged down in the details.
The sentiment we’re conveying is: We won’t vote for genocide Joe. There’s nowhere else for us to convey it so we do it here. People who ignore the sentiment because of some unapproved terms weren’t going to listen to our sentiments anyway.
Only thing unhinged is your pretense at comprehension.
You shouldn’t have demanded Biden nuke Israel from orbit if you wanted to be taken seriously.
(what’s that? You don’t like when others lie about what you posted? Well, perhaps consider that before you lie about other’s posts.)Right. You seem totally hinged.
He has hinges, they’re just not attached to a door frame.
what’s that? You’ve no leg to stand on and thus can’t stamp you feet in anger? Yeah, that is what happens when you post baseless and pointless shit about serious subjects. Learn from your mistakes and get informed before posting if you don’t wish to be called out on your bullshit.
👍
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When dealing with bullies the best choice is to mock the tiny little men they are. Question would be why, especially in this thread so very filled with Russian driven misinformation, would it offend you so for me to mock the tiny little ego of lil’ Dic. Pootie?
Comments in this post are going off the rails. If we receive any more reports on comments here, we will be locking this post.
The majority of this thread seriously misunderstanding decades of US foreign policy.
(I ain’t saying it’s right)
This is called lawfare. It’s part of Hamas’s tactic of using voluntary and involuntary human shields to inflate civilian casualties.
https://sites.duke.edu/lawfire/2023/10/15/five-ideas-to-counter-hamas-lawfare-strategy-and-why/
Are you upvoting your own comment with alt accounts? Lemmy’s community doesn’t agree with your take in any way, seeing the voting on other comments that are denouncing the Genocide. Just this comment magically gets 8 upvotes.
alternate voices are banned and comments deleted all the time. check the modlog. your “community view” is very curated
His comment had a positive score in a thread where the scores were leaning the exact opposite way.
Considering we are in a pro Palestinian “echo chamber” it’s rather weird that a blatant IDF troll comment receives any upvotes.
Nice of you to notice one of the Lemmy.World bots ;)
No. You sound paranoid. Judging by international support, maybe I’m getting up votes from the presidents and diplomats of the USA, EU, NATO, UK, France, Germany, Norway, Australia, and Canada, and other countries who are supporting Israel right now.
Maybe I’m getting downvoted from Iran, Iraq, Malaysia, Brazil, North Korea, and Syria, and the other countries who you have joined with to call this genocide. See paragraph 12 of South Africa’s complaint for a full list of the shithole, authoritarian theocracies who agree with you.
Maybe you ought to ask yourself why you’re taking a position that is supported by Iran against the position taken by Canada. Ask yourself, did I get tricked by half truths and exaggeration and dig into a position not supported by the evidence before my very own eyes? Daily death tolls have been dropping week after week.
Or maybe those countries aren’t the Bastions of freedom I think they are? Maybe they all have histories of imperialism, settler colonialism, and have done their own genocides against their own indigenous populations? And they have economic and military objectives that requires having Israel in the middle east as a military outpost? No, it’s the children who are wrong!
Grow up.
Holy Whataboutism Batman
What aboutism would be to say that your arguments are invalid because you also live somewhere where the thing you’re complaining of has happened. This is no way whataboutism.
Or it would be like if I said “South Africa’a complaint should be tossed because it was an apartheid state.” See, that would be a ridiculous argument to make.
Do you have an answer as to why it is that you’re agreeing with Iran and disagreeing with Canada?
Well because people in Iran eat food and I eat food too.
I guess that means that you and people in Canada don’t eat food because else you’d would agree with Iran.
Don’t play ignorant.
Iran doesn’t deny that food exists and want to murder all farmers. Quit avoiding it.
Offer some plausible explanation from the polarity between the support and opposition on South Africa’s complaint and the incongruity with your position, or avoid the question a fourth time. What will you do…
It’s weird to see people taking that the Court didn’t outright reject the claims as a guilty verdict? I don’t know anyone who expected them to reject it, most were pushing for the Court to demand Israel cease operations in the strip… they didn’t do anything of the sort which was pretty surprising to me.
The propaganda flying around is wild, not that I expected reality to be what came from any interim decision by the Court. The pro Palestine folks are cheering like it’s a victory but Israel gets to keep doing what they’re doing so I don’t get how they’re interpreting it that way.
It’s not a victory. The court imposed no new restrictions on Israel that it was not already imposing on itself.
The reporting is absolutely wild. I see news article afte rnews article of reports of buildings being blown up with dozens of civilians inside, but they rarely name the building or adequately describe its location, so it’s basically impossible to fact check. It’s also impossible to know whether I just read 25 stories about the same building or 25 stories about 25 buildings.
When I have been able to identify the building, every single time there have been repeated warnings down to the individuals in the building being called on their phones to say get out.
The outrageous number of civilian casualties is easily explained by the strategy deployed by Hamas to maximize civilian casualties. There is nothing better to Hamas than seeing a Palestinian person die to an Israeli weapon, and then getting to blab to the international community about it, even if it was Hamas who told the person to go stand in front of the bomb.
If Israel was committing genocide, the Court would have issued an order to stand down. They didn’t do that. They requested Israel not commit a genocide and smack the government officials talking out of turn into place.
They pretty much issued a green light to destroy Hamas provided Israel keeps doing what they’re doing.
That’s a fair reading of it.
Well ya, I’ve got half a fucking brain unlike seemingly half this thread.
Blaming Biden for the genocide in Gaza is like blaming trump for Russia deciding to invade Ukraine. Yes Biden should be more forceful in speaking out against this genocide and enacting sanctions against Israel, but it’s Israel that is the actual genocidal monster here. It isn’t Biden that wanted this war or that is trying to eradicate the Palestinians, and all this misplaced anger is only going to ensure that Israel continues down the same path.
Uh… No? Biden is actually helping Israel; the people in Gaza are being murdered using American bombs. And he’s protecting them at the UN. People have been charged at Numenberg for less.
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He’s literally delivering the weapons that enable them to commit genocide.
Blaming Biden for the genocide in Gaza is like blaming Trump for the world being flat. Both are just made up things that internet weirdos believe but they feel like repeating it over and over is the same thing as evidence.
Sorry but Hamas committed genocide, Israel is executing a war to destroy Hamas because of the aforementioned genocide committed by Hamas. This is happening on a planet that is round despite what you might have heard from certain corners of the internet.
Working so hard to get qult45. Bet they’ll refuse all responsibility should they succeed.
You can’t defend genocide.
So you pretend opposition to genocide is support for Trump.
You can abhor trump will simultaneously thinking that there’s genocide happening that Biden is supporting. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.
“You can damage Biden while simultaneously helping Trump.” FTFY
Biden in no way supports it, has used what pull he’s got to try and stop it, got the ceasefire that did happen, and is continuing to call for and attempting to bring about a solution to the issue. So, yes, they are mutually exclusive. You are hurting the chances of anything beneficial happening while simultaneously increasing the chances of making things worse.“Biden in no way supports it”
This is a flat out lie and you should be ashamed of yourself for typing it. If there is ONE THING Biden has made ABSOLUTELY CLEAR since October, it’s that he will protect Israel with any means necessary.
It’s no wonder people don’t take liberals like you seriously, you’re a fucking brain dead idiot.
This is a flat out lie and you should be ashamed of yourself for typing it.
People who support genocide for its own sake aren’t known to balk at dishonesty.
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Stamp your feet all you like but all evidence is to the contrary. You are simply mad Biden can’t wave a magic wand and make the slaughter stop.
The evidence that he’s for genocide: He sells weapons for the purpose when he doesn’t have to.
The evidence he’s against it: “Trust us, guys. He’s totally working behind the scenes!”
Are you kidding me? He can end it with a phone call to Bibi. In fact he can order his just-offshore aircraft carriers to enforce a no fly zone over Gaza.
Proven false and were he stupid enough to listen to your idiocy it would assure his loss in Nov.
Biden didn’t have to circumvent Congress to sell them weapons for the genocide you support.
No one was clamoring for him to do that, and no one would have blamed him if he didn’t.
Mother fucking RONALD FUCKING REAGAN did more to reign in Israel than Biden has. He absolutely supports it, or he would have done more. Sending them weapons while saying, “be careful” isn’t using any pull to try to stop it. The Israelis are going on tv and saying Biden is dumb and they’re using him, and he still fucking sends them weapons.
The political situation is in no way similar to what Ronnie “where’s my brain?” Raygun. As well as your claims being pure bullshit, the options available to Biden are all losing bullshit. If he cuts support to Israel he gets slaughtered in the media and loses many times more Votes than could possibly be gained by adhering to the idiocy you are demanding.
Yep! You’re absolutely right! They should just buckle up and accept their their genocide as a necessary loss!
This election is making me hate l*berals almost as much as the GOP, they’re getting to be the same kind of heartless, thoughtless, rabid pieces of shit as conservatives. Literal trump rally tier shit, you fuckers literally beg for four more years of genocide and think anyone but yourself and God Emperor Dark Brandon are losing him those votes? Go fuck yourselves, you’re all reactionary murder-happy assholes
Zero votes from the tankie demographic last election. Zero votes from the tankie demograaphic in this election. Net loss of votes: zero.
But somehow people that are too edgy to ever participate in democracy think that threatening to not vote will matter to anyone.
I love how “tankie” now just means “someone who doesn’t love genocide for its own sake.”
Hamas a fascist organization where the political leadership are billionaires living in Qatar. The Gaza local leadership is hiding in underground bunkers while the population is on the surface at the mercy of an army they claim to be committing genocide.
The villages that Hamas went in and massacred on October 7 were Kibbutzes, which are basically the socialist ideal communes.
So you’re a socialist that looks the other way about the a genocide of people living in peaceful socialist communes. But get insanely emotional when there’s a war against the perpetrators of that genocide to the point where you’re carrying water for a genocidal fascist regime, repeating their false equivalency “both sides” narratives in an attempt to give them cover for the genocide they committed. Ya know the whole fascist thing of accusing the other side of the crimes they’re guilty of?
So you’re a “socialist” that supports fascists that murder of people living in communes. ie.Tankie.
I don’t support Hamas.
Opposition to Natanyahu’s genocide isn’t support for Hamas.
a kibbutz on occupied land is not idealized socialism at all. if you need to conscript children to enforce your occupation, you are not doing leftism.
The children were born there. They weren’t “conscripted”. They were living in the place they were born. They were murdered for because for living in the place they were born and being of an ethnicity that was hated by some evil people.
When you think people don’t have a right to live in the place they were born because of their ethnicity, you aren’t doing leftism.
When you think in terms of a restoring maps to have the ethnic makeup they’ve had in the past, you aren’t doing leftism.
That’s the kind of thing fascists are all about. River to the Sea = Blood and Soil.
Fascism is just about emotional manipulation. Socialists think they’re immune to this kind of manipulation. but socialists have a weakness about Jews. That old Wealthy Capitalist Jew stereotype, you know what I’m talking about? That emotional association between Jews and Wealth and Capitalism makes socialists predisposed to disliking Jews and open to narratives about the Jews being the enemy. Socialists have been convinced to join antisemitic fascist movements in the past, right?
You feel that a fascist can’t manipulate you because you’re a socialist, but unfortunately no one is immune to emotional manipulation. Ideology is only a social construct. It’s not a real thing. You’re not really at the opposite end of a spectrum from a fascist. That’s just made up thing used as a shorthand to describe moderate politics in a democracy. Extremists don’t conform to a spectrum. They will say and do anything to get power. They won’t avoid you because you say you’re a socialist. They will even call themselves socialist if that gains them power. When power is the goal, ideology, and political spectrums, left / right, none of that matters. The only thing that matters to a fascist is using emotional manipulation to get control over you.
The Jews aren’t your enemies, try to be a little more wary of the people that try to convince you they are.
> River to the Sea = Blood and Soil.
this is a lie.
baby, I’m an anarchist
you’re conflating resisting an occupation with genocide, but as I’ve been told many times, there are all emojis living in Israel, so attacking Israel cannot, itself, be antisemitic. qed.
Always with things no one remotely posted. Is the issue you’ve no clue about reality and thus can’t defend your position so must make up shit to pretend?
If you’re not trying to say Palestinians and allies should stop advocating against their own genocide for biden’s sake than what the heck are you trying to say? What else could bring you to say that petitioning against the slaughter and expulsion of their people is “working so hard to get qult45”?
No one suggested anything of the sort. So again, you pretend. Sad really. And no, in no way does slagging on Biden for the crap hand he’s been dealt do anything against the slaughter but in fact the derision increases the chance that the slaughter shall be worse after Jan. 20th 2025.
Liberals are legit indistinguishable from magats at this point. Feigning ignorance while telling oppressed people to shut up and take it or they’ll have it even worse. Biden could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and you would start chanting FOUR MORE YEARS! FOUR MORE YEARS! You’re fascist cunts and I hope you rot in the same graves as the republicans you so desperately want to win
“bOtH sIdEs!!!1!!!” and yet you’ll whine when called out as a shrub or useful idiot.
It encourages him not to support a genocide. It’s the whole “push him left” that I thought we were supposed to do after he got elected the first time. And there’s being dealt a crap hand and there’s not saying anything publically to denounce Israel while working around Congress to give the more weapons to kill children with.
Nope. Biden has already spoken out against it and has worked none stop to end it, including getting the ceasefire that did happen. You are simply spreading misinformation.
