“They are not women’s clothing. I bought them. They are mine.” Eddy Izzard
Ah, but now she’s Suzy Izzard, this line has a whole new context in which to be explored
I already know what you’re getting at but arguments in favor of breaking gender stereotypes aren’t made invalid if the person who originally made them ends up identifying as trans. I know that lots of people like to use situations like that as “evidence that people who break gender stereotypes are just trans-in-denial” and/or a justification for harassing GNC folks (r/egg_irl and r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns were especially awful about that back in their heyday) but it’s very important to recognize that GNC people are valid in their own right, and trying to generalize them as transgender is hurtful and enforces the toxic gender stereotypes that hurt people.
Oh and before someone tries to twist my words around. No a trans woman wearing a dress doesn’t enforce gender stereotypes, what enforces gender stereotypes is to say a person (i.e. a femboy) is trans because they wear a dress without their input on the matter.
I agree with your point. But a guy who wears a dress isn’t inherently a femboy. Which I know isn’t what you’re saying but it can be interpreted as having that implication.
That is a good point, a person who wears a dress isn’t necessarily a femboy. Some certainly are but plenty also aren’t. It wasn’t my intention to imply that wearing a dress makes someone a femboy and I can see how it enforces gender stereotypes to a deree. In the end a skirt or a dress is a piece of clothing, which inherently do not have gender and saying someone is a femboy for wearing those clothes isn’t great if the end goal is to break away and be free from these stereotypes.
Oh I’m definitely not trying to make a statement about gender identity or any sociological ramifications thereof - at least, I don’t mean to. In not thinking about my comment that way when writing it, I hope there isn’t a mean-spirited reading of it!
I was thinking more in the realm of comedy, how jokes are constructed, and what makes them funny or interesting. This classic line from a legendary comedian has recently had a new wrinkle added to it, and I find that interesting. I am curious to hear Izzard’s take on it, if indeed she’s even given it a second thought. (I imagine she has, but I wouldn’t dare assume to know her mind)
Hope that makes sense. Thanks for sharing your thoughts
You just need to rebrand it. It’s not a skirt. It’s a kilt.
It’s not a dress, it’s a long tunic.
It’s not jeggings, it’s…uh…stretchy jeans.
They’re not bras, they’re apple bottom stabilizers that double as moob support apparatus.
Boots with the fur!
Or a hakama, if you’re more the samurai type.
jeggings
Tactical jeans.
Nah, you gotta own it. Capitulating to toxic masculinity and calling your dress a tunic to avoid ridicule is alpha cuck shit. “Please don’t make fun of me, I’m not wearing a skirt, it’s a kilt!” Nah, this is a skirt and it is so much more comfortable than your denim jeans. We’re shopping at target, Braxton, not working on a farm. My outfit is the superior one for this activity
Bringe back þe tunic.
Ωα
Meh, middle-aged white guy here. Got 3 kilts and they’re not so great. Kinda fun in the woods. Went to a party last winter with camo girl leggings and it was super nice. But usually, nah.
The women I dated were hardly conservative, or they wouldn’t be with me, and not a one liked 'em, visibly turned off. YMMV.
Middle age white chick here - might depend on the crowd you are around. I have a lot of friends who wear kilts (as in most of the men I consider friends, including the 6.5ft 400lb giant of a man. Just totally happens to be that way, they don’t know each other for the most part, and I find out years after becoming friends) and they don’t seem to have any trouble getting laid (not all of them are strictly into women, but they get teh secs so whatever floats their goats). But kilts aren’t the only counter-culture they actively and clearly participate in, both aesthetically and personally. That might make the difference; that’s just who they are and they are comfortable with themselves enough to do whatever.
If I saw some dude in a kilt and leggings I’d be super amused and chat with them, but I’m asexual so I also wouldn’t be interested, but I’d be interested in you, the person. The same way I’d be interested to talk to a dude in a prom dress or whatever. If their spine is so shiny they can rock that shit in public, I probably want to know them.
“Spine is so shiny” I… I’m going to be thinking about that phrase all day now.
It’s a good phrase! Maybe one of the best phrases I’ve been exposed to because it implies a lot without the awkwardness of saying it outright.
While I admire your attitude, I don’t think it’s a great idea to try and get around gender stereotypes by rebranding. The best way in my opinion is just to own it and be confident. Going around them in a way enforces them, because you’re changing the name to avoid the stigma that comes with breaking them as opposed to questioning and opposing it.
I’m afraid not everyone is confident, I do however plan on getting myself a kilt one day as well as some programming/Unix socks to go with it.
The key is to start small and go slowly. It’s possible to build up confidence over time and just work up to it.
I think it is changing. A few decades ago women wearing pants also weren’t acceptable.
Though I think there is a loophole. If you would put on a Scottish Kilt you probably would be ok.
Just commented, nah, women do not like the kilt look, not any I’ve dated. I’m not so hot on them myself. One of those things that sounds like a good idea, doesn’t really work out. OTOH, very nice with leggings and combat boots. Warm!
Guys, if you want to try one, get a knock-off Utilikilt. Loads of pockets, manly looking (I think) without the formal pleated look. I never have a chance to wear the pleated one. :(
I wore a Utilikilt for a while. They’re surprisingly uncomfortable. Sitting in a kilt requires effort. The material is a heavy denim, which is hot and doesn’t fall nicely. I expected the breeze to be enjoyable. It’s not.
The pockets are good.
The women I’ve dated that are into men love guys in kilts, but I’m a woman so it may be that bi women are more likely to like it than straight women. That said I’ve heard complaints that some guys don’t bother with ensuring it’s a good kilt for them and picking a good outfit with it
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Shout out to my skinny guys: Girl clothes are cut for us, especially at the waist. Hoodies and jackets are the bomb. Try it. Wife about shit when I strapped on my new women’s jacket. “OH! SO sexy!”
Got plenty of casual clothes given to me by exes. That’s how I learned.
Buttons and zippers on the “wrong” side are a pain, still worth it.
(For context: I’m a middle-aged, white guy living in the South. No one so much as blinks.)
None of those are women’s clothes though, they’re “women’s” clothes, gendered only by companies trying to make more money.
That’s the point he’s trying to make
Not really. Good women’s clothing is cut differently then men’s clothing, so it fits our bodies better, mostly accomodating our narrower waists and wider hips. (And the zippers and buttons are on the opposite side too of course.)
Lies! Deception! Women’s clothing rarely accomodates my wide hips. Swimming shorts at the men’s fit me better. Which it shouldn’t! Same goes for nice, loose clothing. Even the largest sizes just feel like they are trying to shape my shape into a more feminine shape, rather than accomodate my shape comfortably. Fuck women’s clothing. Flimsy, thin, short, cold, crawling, tight, garbage with stupid design. All of it.
The life of a skinny man. Do I choose the clothes that fit me right, or do I choose the clothes with usable pockets?
Mine (mostly) have pockets! But the obvious (to me) reason so many women’s clothes lack pockets is because pockets ruin the form. Wearing my zip-up jacket yesterday, looked great, cut tight, but if I carried stuff in the side pockets it would ruin the look.
And if women truly wanted useable pockets, they’d buy more such clothes. Not like these designers are clueless as to what sells and aren’t maximizing profit.
Exactly! I’m like a 28 inch waist and it’s nearly impossible to find men’s jackets, T-shirts or hoodies that fit right.
Tried buying girl versions of those things? Not sure about T-shirts, haven’t tried that. But I have a small middle-aged gut, not much at all, but I think I might look silly in a woman’s T-shirt.
Idk, haven’t tried “women’s” sizes yet, but will when I get the chance.
I remember in JRPG The World Ends With You, each piece of clothing has a “Bravery” rating. Higher Bravery on the clothing meant the user needed to have a higher Bravery stat to wear it. Girls naturally had mugh higher bravery, and those outfits ranged from girly to risque, but there was no actual gender restriction.
Right on man
Oh, that’s rad. I always wish I had played that game. A little too touch-centric for emulator, though, if I remember.
There’s multiple versions! The OG DS game was VERY touch heavy, but the mobile game remake made the controls much simpler. For me, no version is ever going to match the craziness of having to watch both screens at the same time, but the game is so damn good that if you haven’t played it I’d recommend whatever version you can get your hands on.
Yeeees Joshua, eat 500 bowls of tonkotsu Ramen and then put on the black bakini!
For a long time, and still now, left is met with criticism. People just like to control other people’s lives strangely
Yer be shillin me for wearin me kilt!? My father’s father’s fought the English of ye highlands with nothin but a kilt and his mighty long sword!
That sounds impressive but did he shoot fireballs from his eyes and lightning bolt from his arse?
The great thing about skirts is that they can be breezy even when they’re long! So if you’re not comfortable with everyone looking at your legs, or can’t be bothered trying to sit without showing your crotch, get a nice sweepy skirt that comes to your ankles and Stride! Sprawl! Swagger and Swash! Shwing!
Yes! Floor length skirts are amazing!
In a warm climate I’d imagine the breeze is nice. Up here in Canada though you need a pair of egg warmers.
Depends on which part of Canada you’re in but where I am? It’s been above freezing for the past couple days and will likely stay that way. In Summer it’ll get 33c or higher (91.4f for the Americans). Where I’m from originally it would work even better because the summers get that hot but also absurdly humid. Like 95% humidity.
I’m in Mb which has been surprisingly nice lately. (Almost scary to be honest considering it’s supposed to be between -10 to -20c this time of year.)
Still though, freezing drizzle with a draft up the backside is less than comfortable in my opinion lol!
Wore women’s camo leggings with an olive-drab utili-kilt. Damn that was comfortable. But wearing a kilt in the woods and the heat? Just didn’t feel right to me, and I’ve tried a couple of different kinds.
I’ve never been bit by mosquitos in my dangly bits, and I don’t think I want to be. Had a woodtick there once when I was 8, that was more than enough.
Canada has more than one season. It can get very warm in the summer
Well yes, but I’m referring to present day with it being winter. In the summer it easily gets past +30c here. Last summer I would have gladly run around nekkid when it was +36c if I wouldn’t get arrested.
you need a pair of egg warmers.
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Man I wish people were that nice to me before I came out
fuck pants
Fuck pants have a fly or undoable back/crotch depending on whether they’re for the fucker or the fuckee
I… needed to read that a second time. Yes.
Are JNCOs skirts?
A skirt for each leg. The truest equality.
I have no conceptual problem as a cishet man with wearing skirts, but I’ve worn drag on stage in high school and it was sort of hard to stop flashing people my underwear at various points and that would be all I would think about if I wore a skirt now.
You could go with the athletic shorts under the skirt, still a lot of airflow but no risk of flashing.
Just wear a nice snug pencil skirt: no chance of flashing your knickers and it will look great with your heels.
That doesn’t sound breezy and comfortable.
I dont know maybe you need to change where you live before saying “all of society” is like this.
They living on the internet and people on the internet do be like that.
Or they live in places where “society” is so bothered by it, a handful of old white men are fighting tooth and nail to enact laws forcing it to be a problem in the name of god…
Enby here, the South (USA) is not safe for the likes of us…
You are right. I forget how the world is when I play videogames and don’t leave my home for a while.
